Jana and I dive into the lessons imparted by military veterans—stories told with resilience and gratitude—and how these experiences transform our perspectives on life and hunting. We discuss the profound connection hunters share with the wilderness and ponder the cultural and therapeutic impacts of hunting, the humility learned in nature, and the fierce dedication to conservation that defines the hunting culture.
Check out the new DECKED system and get free shipping.
Jana and I dive into the lessons imparted by military veterans—stories told with resilience and gratitude—and how these experiences transform our perspectives on life and hunting. We discuss the profound connection hunters share with the wilderness and ponder the cultural and therapeutic impacts of hunting, the humility learned in nature, and the fierce dedication to conservation that defines the hunting culture.
Check out the new DECKED system and get free shipping.
We are all here and we're all passionate about the same thing and we realize like again back to what we're going through culturally here we need to band together, and so we're all a little bit more aware of the fact that our rights might be taken away because there's some states going crazy right now that we need to, that we all love to hunt. We understand most of us who are hunters here understand the bigger picture, that, oh, it's not just about pulling a trigger, it's about getting into Mother Nature, which leads back to us talking about health. Sunlight to your eyeballs is healthy to your skin. When you're out in the wilderness, take those boots off and start grounding for five minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go, stand on the ground, touch a rock, touch a tree. Exactly, listen to some water move.
Speaker 1:Mother Nature is so, so healing. But we hunters here it is fun. It's not just to expo, where people are excited to look at new products. It's almost like we're all kind of family because we're all here loving the hunt. We're raising money for conservation, we're trying to protect the hunt, protect the species, and it is a really good vibe.
Speaker 2:These are stories of outdoor adventure and expert advice from folks with calloused hands. I'm James Nash and this is the Six Ranch Podcast. This episode of the Six Ranch Podcast is brought to you by DECT. That's a D-E-C-K-E-D.
Speaker 2:If you don't know what that is, dect is a drawer system that goes in the bed of a pickup truck or a van and it'll fit just about any American-made pickup truck or van. It's a flat surface on top and then underneath there are two drawers that slide out that you can put your gear in, and it's going to be completely weatherproof, so I've never had snow or rain or anything get in there. There's also a bunch of organizational features, like the deco line, and there's boxes that you can put rifles or bows or tools all different sizes. There's some bags and tool kits. There's a bunch of different stuff that you can put in there. But the biggest thing is you can take the stuff that's in your back seat out of your back seat and stored in the drawer system and it's secure.
Speaker 2:You can put a huge payload of a couple thousand pounds on top of this DECT drawer system. There's tie downs on it so you can strap down all your coolers and your four wheeler and whatever else you've got up there. It's good stuff. This is made out of all recycled material that's 100% manufactured in America, and if you go to DECTcom slash six ranch you'll get free shipping on anything that you order. This show is possible because companies like DECT sponsor it, and I would highly encourage you to support this American made business and get yourself some good gear. What's the most scared you've ever been in the woods.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can relate to that because it was just this year. No, there's, there's two times. Just this year was one on my Utah mountain goat hunt, because I'm not a fan of heights, and I was, literally I. So, first of all, I never knew what a panic attack was. I've truly never had one, and I had three of them on my mountain goat hunt because of the heights, like one one day, on day I was a 17 day hunt because four days of scouting, 13 days of solid hunting, got clipped out on day 14. I could not move. I was so freaked out Like I couldn't go any higher. I was afraid to go. I felt like I was dangling off the mountain. That was my first panic attack. And then on day 17, the day I killed my goat, getting to my goat and then trying to get across the shelf back with a heavy pack. Those two moments were truly terrifying.
Speaker 1:And then the one day about five years ago, we ran into mating grizzlies Now ran into quote air quotes is relative. They were across the mountain at 400 yards, but this is right outside Missoula, montana. There's no quote unquote grizzlies really in this area, which of course there are, and it was intense. We heard their. There are our, you know, in the bottom. It sounded, it was echoing. We thought they were in the bottom of the canyon but then all of a sudden they popped out and they were like 400 yards. We spent seven hours, seven hours filming mating grizzlies. It was awesome, but like a little terrific. No, it wasn't really terrifying because there was a big enough space. But it was epic, but now that.
Speaker 1:I now that I say the word grizzly, I arrowed a bull into I think it was 2015 on the Rocky Mountain Front in Montana. I wasn't sure about I actually got two arrows into this bull and I wasn't positive, really. Yep, I can tell you the whole story. It's actually a pretty good story. I shot. The first shot was like 45 yards, thought it was good, but we could not tell on the video. We watched the video back but as this bull ran down and ran over, I was able to run after him and he was kind of clogged up behind some cows. So I got another one in him at 60 yards and I do not shoot 60 yards personally, so it was a Brett Firefire of Hail Mary.
Speaker 1:I already had an arrow in him. We had to leave that bull because I was not sure.
Speaker 1:I did not want to bump that bull and we had just got done filming in the 10 days end of a 10 day hunt, 11 different grizzly bears, and so it's grizz central there and I had to leave that bull and I knew he was obviously bleeding, leaving a blood trail. And the next morning I literally went in and I had the bow in my one hand, narrow arrow knocked, spray in the other. My cameraman had a Glock and the camera in the other hand. We were so freaked out and luckily a bear had not yet found my bull. I found my bull 100 yards into the Quake ease but that, besides my mountain goat, that probably was the scariest you know morning of hunting, just because grizz freak me out.
Speaker 2:When you first heard those grizzlies that were breeding at any point, did you think maybe it was just Laura Zira on the other side?
Speaker 1:Actually I did. I stopped for a second. Yeah, it's really funny because it sounded to me like a bear fight you know and that, and I've never watched made these mating grizzlies, but we did for seven hours. And when? Now, mind you, everyone's going wow, power to him. Seven hours, they weren't together not stop.
Speaker 1:But he wouldn't let her out of his sight. So the seven hours we watched him court her tender sleep together, she tried it was so funny, she tried to sneak away. You could literally like a cartoon watch her like lift her head up he's got his head on the ground and slowly, methodically turn and try to walk away. He'd probably hear a stick crunchers on, he'd whip his head up and go cut her off Right Like she wanted to get away from him and he would not let it happen. But we watched a mate four or five different times and when they parted each time maybe like dogs, I'm assuming never really watched that either they she would get on her hind legs and beat the crap out of him and they would fight for 10 seconds, 15 seconds and then they would chill out. And that was the pattern all day, seven out, all seven hours. It was so cool. But I just thought when he first heard it that it was just maybe two bears fighting. You know, not courting, mating fighting. It was awesome.
Speaker 2:That's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really cool. It's like Nat watching Nat Geo. I mean, how often do you get to watch that?
Speaker 1:I mean maybe once in a while, if you're like in Glacier National Park or in Yellowstone, but to be able to only be at the closest we were only 200 yards, because they ended up in the course of the day moving down the mountain ridge. We were able to kind of get on our ridge a little bit closer. But to watch that kind of behavior like that's the kind of when I'm talking to non hunters, that's what I'm saying Like those days are what it's all about, like if we weren't hunting we would have never watched that it was incredible. I actually did a full episode about that and you can see it on Skullbone Chronicles on Carbon TV. It's called like Grizzly Mating or Grizzly's Encounter or something like that, and it's really cool footage.
Speaker 2:Tell me about what Carbon TV is, because there's still a lot of people that just have no idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, carbon TV is like YouTube for hunters. It's free. Just like YouTube. They're although, unlike I'm never on you I'm probably one of the rare people I'm never on YouTube. I guess you can buy a subscription to like, not get ads and stuff. It's not like that. When I say it's like YouTube, it's literally free free for everybody.
Speaker 1:It started out as an app to where you could watch it on your phone. Everything's free, no subscription at all, and now it is like watch mainstream TV because in the last five years they've just advanced the company so much. It's all hunting, fishing and outdoors and you can put it on your main TV. If you've got a Roku stick or a Fire Stick, you just go into the menu and there's a setting that it says add channel and you can search for channels. Type in Carbon TV and you can literally add it to your menu right next to Netflix, amazon, whatever the apps you have loaded on your TV. If you've got a Bizio TV or a Samsung TV newer than 2017, you can simply do the same thing. You can go into their apps, search add Carbon TV and put it right in your main menu. So what was just a phone app is now mainstream TV.
Speaker 2:What about uploading to?
Speaker 1:it. I don't have to do that. Thankfully I've got my business partner Heath. I don't have to do any of the uploading. He teased my editor cameraman and he does all my uploads but it's a pretty super easy process.
Speaker 2:from what I hear, so anybody can upload to it.
Speaker 1:You have to go through Carbon and sign a contract and they have exclusive contracts and non-exclusive. You do not have to just air your content on Carbon. A lot of my friends have their stuff on Carbon also on YouTube and maybe some other platforms, but it's the number one hunting and fishing outdoor content platform.
Speaker 2:How does it make money?
Speaker 1:It has ads. So if you go into my show you'll see a 15 second, usually Chevy they're one of my partners. You'll see a 15 second Chevy ad but it's ad revenue based but it's not broken up with tons of commercials through it. It's funny. You think, oh, big deal, 15 second. But nowadays kids are like what I have to sit through a 15 second commercial. We're all so just digitized. Our brains are. But yeah, it's ad generated. There's banners up on top. They make their money that but ad revenue generated but not loaded with ads through your as you're watching just in the beginning, yeah, what animal would you most like to watch in the wild?
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm going to throw out. I want to see a sloth because I've never, I'm kind of obsessed with. So I was obsessed with porcupines. For years I had never seen one and I had bohanted Wisconsin lived there 20 years before I moved out west had never seen a porcupine. Well, now they're like vermin and you see them everywhere, right? So I'm graduating two sloths I would love to see sloths in the wild would be so awesome. I'm kind of one of those freaks. I belong to sloth pages on Instagram just so I could see them.
Speaker 1:Their babies are the cutest things you've ever seen, and every once in a while I don't even know where they live, like the Amazon or whatever, you'll see somebody driving along and have a sloth rescue, like we have turtle rescues here. I just think it'd be so cool to see sloths in the wild.
Speaker 2:Costa Rica.
Speaker 1:Oh, is that where they are?
Speaker 2:Well they're in lots of places, but that's like a common thing that tourists get to do when they go to Costa Rica is like hold a sloth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I want to be a tourist and go hold a sloth Do you know about the giant ground sloth that used to exist. Yes, only recently, though. Like it's so cool. Isn't it awesome when you see a species like even that are existing today or prehistoric where you're like? Is that true Like? Is that just someone generate AI or someone just generate? I did see that sloth. It's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, over 2000 pounds. Yeah, what an incredible animal.
Speaker 1:How amazing, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:To put that into perspective, today the largest land mammal in North America is the bison coming in at like 2200 pounds, yeah, at the top end. So to have a sloth that was bigger than that. It's just. I don't know what I would do if I saw such a thing.
Speaker 1:That would be epic, that would be so cool. I still, the once in a while, will come across a species that I've I'd never seen before and.
Speaker 1:I'm like I kind of I was one of those kids who, like, grew up watching nature shows. I grew up with Jack Hannah and, even before that, marlon Perkins and, like, I've always loved animal shows and you think, okay, you know, I'm pretty old knob and around the planet over five decades, and every once, while you see a species, you're like, what is that? I can't think of the name of it right now. I saw it for the first time ever. A couple years ago I was in a museum in Oklahoma and it was a skull museum but they had a ton of taxidermy, so not just skulls. It's called skulls unlimited, I think in Oklahoma, and it's like an antelope but it has like the trunk of an elephant.
Speaker 2:I do know what I'm talking about. I think they're called like a Saiga. That's it, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's it. Yeah, and they're so cool and they live like in Siberia or somewhere, and the reason their noses are like a little trunk is they have to warm that air up as they inhale it before it gets into their lungs. And I remember seeing that. I'm like, okay, I kind of think of myself as sort of you know, schooled in mother nature. And here's a species I've never seen, never heard of. I love that so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, you and I both love bears and we both love skulls, right? Something that I'm currently geeking out really hard on, and I'm at the stage where I'm just gonna have to do something about it. I've been hunting bears in eastern North Carolina for the last few years, which is where the largest black bears in the world come from.
Speaker 1:They're giants.
Speaker 2:Such giants but they're in like two and a half counties. It's a really small area and there's bears outside of that that don't get big. You know they're normal American black bears.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I've been wondering for a long time why these bears get so big right here and people say, well, they have unlimited access to food, they don't have to hibernate, like, okay, there's other bears under those conditions that don't get that big, yeah. So I finally got my skull back from the bear that I got a couple years ago and as soon as I saw it I was like whoa, this is so different. And then I put it next to my other bears from Idaho, oregon, montana, and the texture of it, the shape of it, everything is radically different. It looks more different from an Idaho black bear skull than than the Idaho black bear skull looks from a grizzly skull.
Speaker 1:That's so fascinating. I've never hunted bears. I've killed 17 bears. I'm kind of addicted, like you, but I've never hunted the Carolina, so that's so fascinating. What do you think? What is, what's the difference? Genetic differences?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know I, as soon as you start to get into the, the talk about, like, is this a subspecies, is it not? I mean, that's that's largely determined by the scientist, and whether they're a lump or a splitter and, you know, largely doesn't matter. Another thing that's interesting about these Carolina bears is their skulls are short. Oh, so they're very wide. They're huge body bears, you know, up to 900 pounds.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And it's. They've got a great big head. But if you, if you score it, you measure it for length and width, like we do for Boone and Crockett or Pope and Young, they tend not to score that well because they're shorter for their size.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not getting a length measurement which?
Speaker 2:is another thing that's like. This is a morphological difference. It's so fascinating, yeah, and I do not know how to run down DNA sequencing, but it's bothering me enough that. I'm just going to have to figure it out.
Speaker 1:That is so cool. I've never heard that before. I've never heard anybody, and I'm a bear freak myself. I've never been able to hunt the Carolinas. That's fascinating. No, I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I kind of a skull gale myself.
Speaker 2:So I'm surprised.
Speaker 1:I've never heard anyone else talk about that.
Speaker 2:My podcast studio at home is just skulls. It's yeah like wall to wall skulls and I often will ask guests to like see if they can name them all and it's really interesting. Jordan Manley, who is just on the show, did better than anybody's ever done before, including like big game biologists.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. That's awesome. Love that yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think my favorite out of all of them that I have is a river otter.
Speaker 1:Oh, I have an otter. It's not a river otter, I have a sea otter.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But they're cool, are they? The long and flat? Yeah yeah, they look like little, like an alien thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But their brain to like body ratio is incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like they have such a huge brain and I have a hippo in there too and the this river otter brain isn't that much different from the size of the brain of this 2000 pound hippo.
Speaker 1:Really yeah, oh, hippo skulls are so cool with their rippers and cutters and oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, they're the best.
Speaker 2:I love them. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hippos are such an incredible animal.
Speaker 1:They really are so tough, so odd yeah. Well, and most people have no clue about their behavior.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:You know, they see the big fat one at the zoo and they're so cute in the babies and they're so cute. Oh my, are they fierce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fierce animals, really grumpy. Yes, yeah, crappy, bad attitude, bunch of cairns. But you know what, if I could only eat vegetables, I'd be grumpy too.
Speaker 1:Good point. You sure they don't eat a zebra too, as they cross. You never know, I think, just a little chump on this.
Speaker 2:They might do it out of spite. I don't think they swallow, though. Yeah, what's the most underrated species to hunt in North America?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a. That is a question I have never been asked. I love it yes. Yes, underrated, ok, I got it. Sica in Maryland.
Speaker 2:And the reason I say that is, I didn't even know these existed either.
Speaker 1:So a guy came up to me at Shot Show oh, this is probably six or seven years ago. His name is Dale Gertz and he had messaged me a bunch on Facebook about coming to Maryland and hunting Sica deer. And I've never hunted high fence, so I don't, you know, I didn't know if that's what he was talking about or like what do you mean? Sica deer, and I'm thinking Sica black tail.
Speaker 1:In my mind, that was the first thing that I knew nothing about, this amazing little species that was brought to the shores of Maryland at the turn of the century and they were a gift, I guess, to someone, and that, and as well as they were, most of them, were placed on an island off the coast of Dorchester County, and then I don't know if it was due to storms or I I'd be lying if I said that I knew the exact history but they came across to the mainland as well as their fragmite grass, which is that super tall, like you know, 10, 12 foot tall fragmite grass that's super invasive, like we actually have it all over here in Utah.
Speaker 2:And it's got big poofy things on top. It's kind of beautiful.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful, yeah, but it's invasive and chokes out everything but that, as well as the Sica just flourished in Dorchester County, maryland, and he said you need to come hunting with me. And I'm like I know nothing about them. Tell me a little bit. And we talked for a couple of years before I actually made it happen, and it was such a cool hunt, number one because I knew nothing about it, going into it and their behaviors, the fact you have to literally put on waiters to get to your tree stand because you're hunting the swamps of Maryland and you know, a couple of different times I'd fall and, you know, hold my bow up and like just getting waterlocked, and it was. It was such a unique hunt because they're like, they almost look like. They don't really look like little white tails, they almost look like an exotic species. I believe they're originally from Asia, but they're small, they're 60 to 80 pounds, you know, kind of a size of a big dog Chocolate colored chocolate, a little bit of spotting on the back, and they are only come.
Speaker 1:they only are a one by one or, like a spike, a two by two or three by three, typically a big stag sick. A stag is literally just three points on one side, three points on the other side, but they bugle like elk. So it's so cool.
Speaker 2:And like the most adorable tone possible, so cute.
Speaker 1:I'd be doing them shame if I tried to sound like it. Yeah, it's almost like a like almost like a whistle in threes, a set of three. So like you're sitting there and there's mist coming off the water and you're smelling the swampy air and all of a sudden you hear this whistle and he calls out three times in the whistle and then couple minutes go by and he'll whistle again and you can like totally tell like that whistle's coming closer.
Speaker 1:So, it's so exciting in that way. And the little hinds we had the first day we were out in a tree stand had a little hind and they're super aquatic so they swim really well like just like the most skilled water dog, and this little hind swam around us and she'd go under the water and that kind of pop up and you know, you find spots out in the marsh that are just bumps of dirt that have a tree on them and to put your tree stand up. But it and they're so cute they make a little like almost mewing noise. But I thought that that I mean it was truly one of the greatest tons I've ever been on and so underrated because no one ever talks about it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of public land that you can hunt. Private land you're allowed to bait, public land you're not. But if you've got a boat and I know, I know guys who are completely obsessed with it and you've got you, you can go and do a DIY public land hunt. Otherwise, if you were lucky like me and I was able to bump in a dale and I was going to be so excited if I had the opportunity to even arrow a hind one of the females and I ended up shooting on day two it's not the best footage I've ever filmed because he put us in this stump blind that literally looks like a monster tree stump, but it's not very conducive to filming. There's two little slits that you can either shoot out of or film out of. So we're kind of joking about like I will sit here in the morning and then we'll go back out into the swamps and wouldn't you know it? I look out there and there's.
Speaker 1:I did a bit of research and I'm like that's, that's a giant. Now it's hard to say that's a giant when you're used to looking at. You know big bulls, you know bull elk, but for that species I knew it was a really good one and even though, like, the footage on the episode is kind of is not the best because we're filming out of this little slit of a tree stump or a ground stump stand, I arrowed the stag and placed a good shot and it happened to be the seventh largest ever taken with a bow at the time. I think it's been beat since then. But yeah, just dumb luck, right, dumb luck, but that was an amazing hunt.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, yeah, yeah. So people call, call them sickers, psychers, sickers, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:Every name under the sun. Yeah, I was told Sica is what the locals say but I heard, I've heard Sica more than anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and everybody is very confident in their own yeah exactly Alright whatever. Yeah, I'll call it whatever you call it. Yeah, they are super cool. One of my one of my clients lives on the Eastern Shore and he has them that come into his yard at night and he'll send me videos and stuff. And yeah, the sounds they make are just adorable.
Speaker 1:It's so cute, and if you could actually go during their roar you know like a stag roar and hear them. It's magical.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're really in the in. It's cool. I almost felt like I was in Cambodia or something you know, just completely different terrain than I'd ever hunted before and a species I'd never seen, never heard. It was such a cool hunt, so I would say that's highly underrated.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's most overrated, oh.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I love it all, I know you don't want to say it, but there's. There's got to be something.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say species, but the most overrated, I think, is sitting in a box, blind about us, or sitting in your tree stand all day long, Like it is so hard for me to do that now, I mean after I grew up doing that. You know I I picked up a bow when I was a freshman at college and I've been bow hunting for 32 years now and I grew up hunting out a tree stands in Wisconsin. You know, and I would. I'm not the kind of stay out all day long, unless it's the rut, you know, then I would. But otherwise, you know, you go out and you're usually a hang on or a tree stand or a box. You know even box blinds for rifles Do. I have a hard time sitting still now after your spot and stock and elk or mule ease or even antelope. It's just so hard. So I'm not going to bash on a species, but I will say the most overrated kind of hunting is tree stand.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unless you're in the rut.
Speaker 2:I had to hunt out of a pop up blind in Nebraska or no, it was Kansas a couple of years ago and it was all day sits, days and days in a row and it just killed me. It's hard, it just killed me.
Speaker 1:You are. You are putting in a lot of time and energy for that three seconds of of excitement.
Speaker 1:Like it's hard and it and like and I didn't. It's just everything's relative, right, it's not hard and hard to do unless you're spot and stocks tons of stuff. And I would just rather like just be out and about and hiking and you know, just putting on the miles is so much more fun, like in Montana, if you're spot and stock and elk. You're going to see elk, probably mule, deer, probably white tail, maybe bear. You're going to see. I've had, I've seen six different mountain lions in the last 13 years. Not hunting, not hunting them, I should say you know, hunting other things like wolves.
Speaker 1:I've seen wolves. Everyone knows I shot at and missed a wolf.
Speaker 2:I can mention that I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Oh, you didn't.
Speaker 2:You missed. Oh dude, I have the funniest story I I missed. I did a video, full video dude.
Speaker 1:Oh, called it in and everything. It was the most. You should have asked me what's your most painful story, because that would be it. I have the funniest story, though I think of this all the time. So yeah, that was a while ago. We called it in. It was amazing. I missed. He was on the trot. I'm giving myself a little bit of an excuse, but still I should. I should have seen Easy to miss. I should have smacked him. I was so jacked.
Speaker 1:I was so excited that it worked. We actually called it in all. On video too, it says beautiful, big black wolf. But so, like two years later, I'm on a red eye somewhere, I'm traveling alone. I can't remember where I was going or coming from, and I'm in I think it was Minneapolis, where they have this super long escalator thingy. It's not the up, it's just a flat escalator. It's in the. You know, you're running to the terminals. There is no one in this airport. It's just. I'm telling you as a red-eyed, it's just me, and I can see this guy coming on the other. What are those called? I can't even think of it. The other trailway, you know coming towards me, moving sidewalks.
Speaker 1:Yes, moving sidewalk, thank you. He's coming towards me and I can tell he's looking at me a little weird and I can't. I'm always embarrassed. I don't know if he recognizes me or not. And right as we passed he said I cried with you when you missed the wolf. That's all he said. He didn't say hey, you're Skullgale, or hey, jan, or nothing. I cried with you when you missed the wolf.
Speaker 1:It was the funniest experience I've ever had and I think about it all the time. But that that was a painful, painful day for me, actually weeks, weeks on end. I was so mad at myself that I just didn't take more time. It was like 80 yards too. It was nothing and, but everything happens for a reason. It's probably a good thing in the long run. I was a Montana Wildlife Commissioner and the last thing and the wolf issue is still very hot in Montana what should the quotas be around Yellowstone, da-da-da. So it's probably good that there's there's not Jan or the Commissioner with a big grip and grin or a big wolf circulating during that time of my life. But it was. It was painful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, everybody misses, I know yeah.
Speaker 1:I know, but not at a wolf and on video, yeah that is pain For sure.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Well, what? What kind of hunting do you find most satisfying? I guess, because you know we're talking, we're talking about polarities here. So, like overrated, underrated, we talked about pain, talked about what's not satisfying, being, you know, just sitting static for long periods of time, do you? Would you prefer spot-and-stock on a species that isn't vocalizing? Do you like calling? Where do you land on that?
Speaker 1:I really love it all. And I hunt with a rifle, I hunt with a bow, I hunt with a pistol, so, and muzzle loader, so with big pistols yeah. I would big Desert Eagle 4-22, although I did just get a new one that I've not hunted with yet, but I did just get a 30-30 revolver. It's beautiful, Her name's Rose.
Speaker 2:She has a rosewood handle Nice. And she's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was built by the guys at Magnum Research. I'm gonna bear hunt with it this year. So maybe I would love to branch from bears and cats and hogs to deer elk.
Speaker 2:I just haven't had the opportunity yet, but I killed the bull with my 10 mil two years ago. You did oh that's awesome.
Speaker 1:It's pretty sweet, nice. How far was it?
Speaker 2:35 yards.
Speaker 1:Oh heck yeah. And he was dead really quickly I know that actually, now that you say that, I do remember that. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know. Very many people have done that. No, the only one.
Speaker 1:I know who's like so proficient is Todd Orr. Do you know Todd Orr's story? He was attacked by the Grizzly.
Speaker 2:Twice in a day? Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:I think he's killed like 30, some 38 bulls, 39 bulls with a pistol. So yeah yeah, but other than him, yeah, most people don't even attempt.
Speaker 2:He's using revolver, so isn't he? I don't know I just know.
Speaker 1:I I'm not sure what he's using. I just heard it the other day again. You know his story is really incredible. But they're like, yeah, this guy. If this guy could get attacked, anybody can, because he's so he's such a skilled outdoorsman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's perfection, you know knife maker skit, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when I, when I'd heard this, heard the story I think it was in the 20s of bulls he's killed or whatever. Right Now, like every year, he goes out and he's successful with the pistol. And but yeah, not a lot of people big game hunt with a pistol. Larry Weishen, of course he does a bit with white tails. But back to your question. I love it all. I love, I love spot and stock.
Speaker 1:I actually have not been archery hunting much in the last five years because I hurt my shoulder. Then I got into pistol hunting and I've had so much fun with the pistols and, honest to God, like Magnum Research has been such a wonderful partner to work with that I want to produce for them. So I might take an archery elk hunt and go. I'll go, you know, pistol hunt instead, or I just with that injury. But this year I'm, I got a new bow. I'm really looking forward to getting back into archery because it's really where I came from the archery world. I didn't even kill a big game animal with a rifle till 10 years after I started archery hunting. But I love it all.
Speaker 1:I would say if I, if I had to choose, I don't know I really do like. I'm going to spot and stock mule hunt for the first time with John, my husband, this year. We've never done that together. We've only been married since June, but we're going to hopefully draw the Manti here in Utah. It's where his whole family's from and there's just nothing. I don't think there's anything more excited than spot and stock. I don't even care if it's elk, mulees, antelope, whatever. I have never killed a bear spot and stock, which is also kind of on my bucket list as I get older and I know a guy yeah, because Oregon, that's all we got.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know, we can call, I guess, but we can't use dogs and we can't bait, yeah. So yeah, that's our deal.
Speaker 1:I spot and I'd stock obviously rifle. I meant with a bow.
Speaker 2:With a bow, gotcha Spots all the time.
Speaker 1:Montana, same thing. We have no baiting, but they did allow dogs a couple years ago in certain areas, but no, I've never stocked up on one with a bow. Now I've shot him off the ground at 10 yards all the time in Canada, where these bears could not care less, if you're there.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it is such a different bear hunt than Idaho where I bait. I personally bait with my business partner Heath. We started sitting on the ground there years back and they just there's too much pressure. They will not come and they know you're there. They always know you're there, right.
Speaker 1:They're so smart, they're circling you so far out that they know you're there. But they will not come in with us on the ground there, but in Canada, in Alberta and Saskatchewan. I've eroded them on the ground, but so I would love to have a bear encounter while I'm out elk hunting or mule hunting. But, I do really do love it all, but spot and stock is hard to beat.
Speaker 2:You've done a huge amount of work with veterans, and very good work at that Right. So there's more to it than just like doing the thing, and I've always admired that you're able to connect in a genuine way that isn't showboating or threatening or you know any of that stuff Right. You do a great job with it Because you understand that's lunard vets in particular so well. What businesses do you feel like could most benefit from hiring vets, and which kinds of businesses probably shouldn't bother?
Speaker 1:Wow, that is a really good one. Okay, I'm just going to tell everybody, before we did this podcast, I'm like let's talk about cool stuff, like let's not talk about the same questions everyone. Oh, my gosh, you're blowing my mind with your hands right now. I love it.
Speaker 1:I have hunted a ton with combat vets and I mean it when I say they've been the highlights of my life, like, and I think the reason being is that I did not have an appreciation growing up. I don't, I don't, I didn't know anyone. My uncle, actually my uncle, was Air Force, but he, he never told me stories. I never. I didn't have the awareness enough to even ask questions. Okay, and then it really started with Bo Richenback, a double amputee Navy SEAL that I took hunting season two or three, a skull bone. And when you, when you're someone like myself who has no family, who's who's veteran doesn't really understand, I didn't. I mean, I've read tons of books, right, but when you're sitting at a campfire or you're sitting on the mountain, wait hours on end, days after days, and you're sitting next to a vet who's willing to share their stories with you and you realize half the time ends up where we're both in tears or we're laughing, or, and you realize what these men and women because I've done a couple hunts with like combat a medic, a medics, or like flight crew chiefs who've seen Helen back, but when I say it's usually men, of course, because men are in combat with so much more than women, and I'm not to say that women don't experience the hell of war at all. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but when you're sitting on the mountain with these guys and they share with you of losing their best friends, you know in their arms, or you know, you know having their life completely turned upside down, losing you know one, two, three limbs I've taken, it makes me just feel so number one, proud to be an American, ashamed. I didn't have the appreciation I should have growing up and even in my 20s and didn't in 30s, like wasn't until my 40s that I understood what our military men and women go through. I often think, like how would I have handled that situation if I lost my legs, if I couldn't do what I do? So it makes me appreciate my health, it makes me appreciate our freedoms in this incredible country that we live in, which I'm just, you know, like everybody right now, shaking my head at half the time of, culturally, what we're going through right now. You know we've got idiots burning the flags and not appreciating what our military goes through. It's really truly been life changing for me. So I would say what business?
Speaker 1:Back to your question of what businesses could benefit, I'll tell you what the warriors that I have been, that God has put in my life. Any company would benefit from these guys, like anything, like they are so happy to be fricking alive and such a zest for life. Eric Elvin, corey, garmin, dom Davila all these guys are amputees and they are so thankful to be alive because their buddies aren't and they lost their friends. That, their zest for life and their gratitude in everything. I think gratitude, first of all, is the key to life.
Speaker 1:If you're grateful for the life that you're living in and grateful for if you have that mindset where, when shit happens and your life's turned up to die down and you ask yourself, okay, wait, wait, not why it's easy to go, why is this happening to me?
Speaker 1:But if you can shift your paradigm into why is this happening for me, like there's really usually beautiful things that can come out of tragedy and I don't care if that's being blown up or a divorce, or losing a friend or family member, whatever that tragedy may be, it can be often a gift, and you don't know what that gift is. These guys feel their lives are gifts. They're hardworking and they just have the best fricking attitudes. And so when you say what businesses would benefit from them, all of the ones I've been blessed with to hunt with and they've usually been vetted like through Wishes for Warriors or other groups right, they're incredible human beings that I'm so lucky to call friends. We stay in touch with every hunt. I think anyone who would have them would be so lucky. I really do. Yeah, yeah, and I'm not saying that's the case for everybody.
Speaker 1:You know I have friends who have been in the military who have other men and women they know from the military that are really struggling. You know whether that's with an addiction, whether it's post-traumatic stress. You know that it would be hard if you had a business and had somebody that didn't have that in check, you know. But thankfully we've got places like Warriors Heart in Texas in patient, 30-day, inpatient, strictly for veterans and first responders to help them get back on track, help them get away from the addictions, help them with their post-traumatic stress, help them with physical you know disabilities. If we didn't have a place, there should be a Warriors Heart in every city, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, it's hard for a lot of guys and gals to recognize how bad off they are, and they also can't. They can't imagine how much better their life could be if they could fix some of this stuff.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:And, honestly, the fixing, the fixing is painful and I've been thinking about this a lot recently because I've been saving money for several years and I finally was able to get some gym equipment. So I bought some stuff from Bershorn, from Soren X, and I made myself a little gym in my shop and I've been in there lifting weights for a few months. What is a big deal about that is if we dial it back. 10 years I was having doctors tell me like, limit it to like eight pounds, something the size of a gallon of milk for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1:Don't ever lift anything heavier than this.
Speaker 2:Like lots of doctors telling me this, people that I should trust and believe. So to lift anything at all is a big deal. The other thing is I had just a huge amount of back pain going into this, and I'm going to tell you why I'm talking about this in just a second. The general purpose of the Marine Corps is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. So the Marine Corps is a simple organism. We need simple things. So this is what we boil it down to, Like find them, get closer to them, kill them. That's kind of it.
Speaker 2:And I started thinking about this as in terms of like how am I going to attack this back pain problem? Because it's getting to be really limiting. I'm having less of a good time hunting. I'm physically limited in my guiding. You know, I try to pick up my nephew and I was like oh, I don't know if I can do this Right. This, this is starting to become a problem that needs to be addressed in a serious way. It's like okay, so what's the enemy in this situation? It's back pain. What do I have to do in order to get rid of that?
Speaker 2:Well, I've got to go towards it, so I had to cause myself more pain initially, but right now my back feels better than it ever has right, and I had forgotten how good it can feel to just have a little bit of strength back and to be able to move around and to not wake up and just hurt really bad, but it takes a huge amount of courage to be able to go in that direction and for anyone out there that's listening, I want you to think about this from your own perspective and if something like Warrior's Heart is right for you, you need to look into that, because there's a good chance that your life could be better than you could imagine it, but you've got to go towards the pain in order to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and unfortunately I don't think. If one of the good things come out of COVID, it's maybe that all of us think a little bit more clearly about Westernized medicine, right, instead of here, here's this pill, pop this pain pill. You know, there's nowadays it's so popular to get into biohacking, and you know, guys, first of all, props to Bert Soren, one of my favorite human beings. He's just amazing and he's really into that biohacking world of the. What can we do?
Speaker 1:Of course, getting our bodies stronger, our relationships stronger, from cold plunging and sauna and all that. And it's funny, it sounds corny, but all that is pieces to the puzzle of health, whether sauna and cold plunging is something that we finally just added to our house and are really excited about it and feel so much better on it. But no, I think you're so right and it can be, I'm sure, very scary. I don't know what it's like. I've never had back problems. I haven't dealt with a lot of the health issues that a lot of our combat warriors go through. But you're right, just to there's, there are resources out there. I think they're only going to get better and better, but it's, I'm sure, super hard to take that first step, to know that you're going to be putting yourself through a ton more pain initially to hopefully get to the other side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and the idea of, well, this is the risk, like I'm for sure going to hurt more if I do this, and to think, well, what if it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that that's the fear that keeps people from trying. And I'm not just talking to veterans out there, I'm talking to everybody, no matter what the problem is in your life. You probably need to actually do something about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's for sure not going to get better on its own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2:And I think plenty of us do that with, like vehicle issues. At some point you start to hear that sound. You're like maybe it'll just stop yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's just going through a phase, no, maybe you just need to go to the mechanic. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:But hunting is an incredible thing. Yeah, it's an incredible thing. It's pretty cool to be here at Hunt Expo and to realize how big this community and, like this, it's kind of an organism, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like we're all part of the same deal and so many people are just walking around and smiling and happy and shows can be a drag. Show season is a long, long ordeal. People get really sick who have to do the show circuit Just because you're contacting so many people and it can be really emotionally draining and exhausting. But when you see people that are just like pumped to meet you, or you know they're really excited about this new piece of gear technology or you know they're trying to book a hunt that they've been saving up for, how cool is that?
Speaker 1:It's so cool and there's such a bigger message here at like Hunt Expo that is. I can't imagine it being like this at, like you know, the concrete builders Expo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the world of concrete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or the home builders Expo, like we are all here and we're all passionate about the same thing and we realize like again back to what we're going through culturally, here we need to band together and so we're all a little bit more aware of the fact that our rights might be taken away because there's some states going crazy right now that we need to, that we all love to hunt. We understand most of us who are hunters here understand the bigger picture, that, oh, it's not just about pulling a trigger, it's about getting into Mother Nature, which leads back to us talking about health. Sunlight to your eyeballs is healthy to your skin. You know, when you're out in the wilderness, take those boots off and start grounding for five minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go stand on the ground, touch a rock, touch a tree. Exactly, listen to this. Some water move.
Speaker 1:Mother Nature is so, so healing. But we hunters here it is fun. It's not just Expo where people are excited to look at new products, it's almost like we're all kind of family because we're all here loving the hunt. You know, we're raising money for conservation, we're trying to protect the hunt, protect the species, and it is a really good vibe, you know that. I can't imagine the concrete association has it.
Speaker 2:I've tried to describe it to people outside the community before and they're like so it's like a big yard sale Kind of. But also no, Because even though this is a consumer show, people aren't here to shop. It's something that they do while they're here. It's a really interesting experience. Talk to me a little bit about the auction scene, because that's something that you're obviously plugged into. Yeah.
Speaker 1:My hubby is the main auctioneer here and this he's actually been involved since the very first Expo 18 years ago.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, he's very involved in conservation alone. A lot of people don't know his conservation side. They know his auction side of his life, but he was. So Utah, like Montana, has a commission. Utah has a board of directors, a wildlife board. He was chairman of the wildlife board for six years and that's volunteer work. That is a lot of stress. That is no pay Like it is, cause he's truly passionate about conservation here in Utah and then before that he was eight years on the RAC committees.
Speaker 1:So he spent like 25 years of his life volunteering evening meetings to conservation, to protect hunting here in Utah and then on the auctioneer side of things, he's basically a conservation auctioneer. He does do once in a while like a breast cancer auction or cystic fibrosis or something like that, but he travels around the country doing these auctions and raising millions and millions of dollars for conservation. Like last year alone, I think we raised I think it was 14 million here in the course of four days, and it's just so exciting watching him on stage. Of course he's my husband. I think he's the best auctioneer I've ever seen.
Speaker 2:But he's so entertaining, he's more than just an auctioneer.
Speaker 1:He's funny and he knows a lot of the people, so he'll call people out in the crowd, but it is truly amazing what they do. You know, you go on social media and you can see the occasional must be nicer. You know, oh, you know, someone's going to drop $500,000 for a tag. That's ridiculous. Hey, now, mind you, I don't have $500,000 for a tag, and if I did have $5,000, I highly doubt I would drop it on a tag. But I'm so glad that guy did, or that guy who did $720,000 for one Arizona tag last year. I'm so glad because all of that money goes to Arizona, or all of that money goes back to the species, and it's a tag set aside specifically. It does not come out of the general public, and I think it's a beautiful thing. I really do. I think it's a wonderful thing. It's not a rich man's game. You can call it that if you want to spin it in a negative direction but it is a beautiful thing that we hunters are able to gather for three or four days and raise $12 million for conservation. That's a fantastic thing and that money goes right back to, for example, the Arizona strip tag, for example. That money's going back to Arizona, you know. Or the Washington moose governor's tag that money's going back to Washington. It's going back to where that tag came from. And I think it's a beautiful thing, it's really.
Speaker 1:And there's such fun events, you know it's. It's like tonight is Friday night's big event Jules McQueen, my bestie, she's emceeing with my husband on stage. Gonna be so much fun. We get to listen to Kevin Holland, who's I'm so excited to hear him. He's such a warrior. And then tomorrow night is the Big auction I'm emceeing, with John on stage, and then there's a concert afterwards and it's just super fun to know that we're having fun, but while all the while raising great money for conservation.
Speaker 2:Yep and there's a tax incentive for people to To purchase these tags at events like this. Isn't there.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's because they go back to their, their. It's a tax write-off. Yep, you know, I mean I would love to need a tax write-off that big someday. But oh yeah, no I, it's a tax write-off for them. It's a different, different level of wealth to be able to drop that kind of. But I'm certainly glad there are people out there willing to do it, because that's what's keeping some of these species alive, a lot of like sheep, for example. It's a delicate species.
Speaker 1:They can get wiped out at the drop of a dime with pneumonia and yeah someone has got to replace those sheep herds on the mountain and its hunters doing it, you know, and that's there's so many great stories like that and they're also the most Scrutinized dollars on the planet. If you want to know where every single dollar goes, they can show you. Mildare Foundation sportsman's proficient wildlife can show you at where every single dollar goes towards. You know there are some. Some auction items are designated towards certain projects. Well, others will go back to the state and they can use that on that species. But you can track dollar for dollar where it goes, and it truly is a beautiful thing and it's not just.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's not just hunts for millionaires, like there are some deals that come through these auctions sometimes deals.
Speaker 1:I was at one one time Wasn't a big one like this. I was at one one time where a four person hunt to South Africa went for 600, but there was no minimum on it. Yeah, went for 600 bucks, you can't go wrong. And you got Impala bless buck warthog. And you can always upgrade if you want to go. I mean there are really some deals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was, I was at sheep show one time and a Safari that was like a buffalo leopard 21 days Safari was coming through and it stalled out at five grand Like nobody was bidding on it. As early in the night I'm looking around like that's like a thirty thousand dollar hunt, oh yeah, least. And you know as it happened. You know there was also some alcohol that was involved and I bid on it, did not have the budget to be spending five thousand dollars and Nobody bid and I was like what just happened?
Speaker 1:What just happened? Did I just?
Speaker 2:like spend all my money and, fortunately, thank baby Jesus, there was a minimum. But that is a steal dude, a leopard and and for whatever it would have, whatever the minimum was eight or ten thousand dollars. Yeah still would have been an absolute steal. Yeah, yeah so and and it's a tax write off on top of that- Yep.
Speaker 2:I say all that to say if you get the opportunity to go to one of these auctions, please take it. They're they're very entertaining and, yeah, you'll see some jaw dropping prices come across and that's like, wow, that's kind of wild, yeah, but you know, it's also just kind of a fun evening. Yeah and I'm looking forward to tonight. I think it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am too. It's always fun. Last year, the guy who, from what I hear, the guy who bought the Arizona tag, he hasn't even gone hunting yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah like what a beautiful thing. He really knew that the money would go back to Arizona and apparently they needed it and that's why he donated that. I think that's a beautiful thing. There are some naysayers, even in the hunting industry, who you know once in a while Get on and yeah, but where's the money go? Whose pockets are being lined? Do your research, because if you really want to know, it's all right there and there's some great projects, for example, like sportsman's.
Speaker 1:Proficient wildlife is one of the main partners to know of the whole event of the Western Hunn-Expo and they started a nursery that is so cool. A lot of people don't even know about it yet here in Utah. They they got the funds, they set it aside, they bought the piece of property, they got a guy to donate the fencing and it's a fencing nursery for desert bighorns and and there it is the only clean, because clean herd, meaning they have no Parasites, no pneumonia, no, nothing. It is the only clean nursery of its kind and the big desert bighorn groups can get wiped out pretty easily and it's a beautiful thing that hunters are the ones, like I said earlier, replacing that herd if something happens. And it's a really, really cool project. But yeah, no, I'm excited tonight to. I'm actually really excited that I have no responsibilities tonight whatsoever and I could just drink, eat and relax and enjoy. But tomorrow night's my big night on stage. It's a little nerve-wracking, but the whole weekend's just a fun time. Hopefully we'll get out of it without getting too sick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's kind of a Petri dish. So you know, take those, take those vitamin C and zinc tablets and yep, oh, for the best, wash your hands, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, janna, last question, all right, what do you consider to be your primary responsibility as a hunter?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good. I Feel like I'm standing on stage.
Speaker 2:I feel my primary responsibility.
Speaker 1:Those pageants. I've never been a pageant, for the record, no, but I, I think my primary. I really honestly it's gonna sound so simple as back to the beginning of why I started skull bone. I think it's our responsibility to teach non hunters what it's all about. I think it's to show non hunters that we're animal lovers. I, oh I. This whole my whole childhood was said I was gonna be a vet because I loved animals. I was always the one rescue in the injured squirrels and you know I had every pet under the Sun. I love animals to this day and I think Non hunters, anti hunters, I don't bother with them. They're never gonna. They're never gonna understand our way of life.
Speaker 1:I'm never gonna understand theirs who we need to reach is that 80% 90% are in the middle. They're non hunters. They didn't come from a hunting family, they're. They're only.
Speaker 1:Exposure to hunters are usually negativity through mainstream media. I I think it's our job to have conversations with or social media posts for Hopefully they reach friends of friends on Facebook right, because, let's face it, most of our friends are hunters. I think it's our responsibility to teach them what hunting really is. We are not a bunch of Bubba's. We're not a bunch of, you know, tobacco chewing, shooting from the truck, wounding animals, not caring. That's not us. That's what mainstream media would love to portray us as. But we're animal lovers.
Speaker 1:We're here to protect the species better than any other group in this country because of the North American conservation model, and I think it's our duty to spread the story, the true story, of what hunting is about Gathering your own food, being out in mother nature, time with family. You know becoming skilled. I'm so. I'm telling you, if every teenage girl and boy became skilled at a weapon I don't care if it's archery, rifles, shotguns, maybe pistol shooting if they became skilled at a weapon, think of the confidence that would build for them, you know, to be able to get their own food, defend themselves, defend their family and it's cool. It's a skill. You have to practice. You have to become good at it before you're gonna take aim at an animal. It's a skill and I think I wish hunter safety was in every single you know school in America. But I think it's our responsibility back to my question, pageant question. It's our responsibility to teach non hunters what it's all about.
Speaker 2:And you don't have to teach all of them, but all of us have to teach somebody and they just have to understand.
Speaker 1:I don't expect them all to run out and become hunters.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just want them to understand, so they don't fight it.
Speaker 1:Yeah so they don't fight us. So they don't. You know, from the ballot initiatives to Stupid legislation that gets passed all the time so they understand and that they also don't fall Victims to the anti hunters. Bogus all the propaganda BS that gets put out with them. Help save the wolf. You're kidding me right? My mom gets them like. Alright, mom, you gotta save the wolf postcard. Who did you give ten bucks to? I don't know. You know the World Wildlife Federation or whatever. I'm like. Stop doing that. You need to send money to groups like Mildare Foundation or foundation for wildlife management.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hunter.
Speaker 1:Hunter based animal loving groups is where you should be sending your ten bucks, you know. But it's scary the amount, the amount of dollars and and money raised by the anti hunting community and, like HSUS, you know, humane Society of the United States is the biggest anti hunting group out there. It's amazing the millions and millions of dollars raised every year and they're putting Messaging out there on social media, postcards, ads. You've seen the ads Sarah McLaughlin playing in the background, you know, save the puppies.
Speaker 2:It's all bullshit, yeah, and and it's an exhausting battle to fight and We'll we'll never get a break like we're always gonna have to. We're always gonna have to show resistance, we're always gonna have to set an example, but ultimately, like, if you just talk in a positive way, in an honest way, about hunting with people who are in your circle, that there aren't hunters, that's all you have to do, yep, that's it. That, that's, that's a heart. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, speak. What does it really mean? What does it mean to you and your kids, your family? You know what does it mean to sit around at the dinner table and celebrate the venison that you got, or the elk steaks, or, you know, the pheasants. It's it, it really I have okay, I got it real quick. Tell you that my favorite anti-hunting story. I got on an airplane. This is probably eight or nine years ago.
Speaker 1:I sat down next to a very, very good-looking, spiffy African-American gentleman. He had a suit and tie on. He just looks so sharp. And it turns out he was a professor from McGill University and he sits down and we just started making chit chat and he's like so what do you do? And I said, oh, I actually host a hunting television show. And he goes right off the bat You're not one of those NRA nuts, are you? I go, as a matter of fact, I am. And we started talking.
Speaker 1:This gentleman was grew up in inner city Chicago. I grew up only an hour and a half north of him in Wisconsin, so I connected to that. But he grew up in the hood of Chicago when guns were, took the lives of his family and friends all the time. He had never been introduced to and he was a vegan. So here he is, an African-American professor from McGill who's a vegan.
Speaker 1:We had the most beautiful two and a half hour conversation I've ever had with an and he was definitely a non anti hunter. He was a vegan because become morally, ethically, but also a Digestively to like it, was a health issues for him. But when I got to explain it to him what hunting's done for my life, what I've seen it do to kids lives, how I love guns, and he was like wait, tell me, why do you love guns? Like that was just never thought about it like that. And I'm like well, I, I get to provide food for my family, for them. I feel safe if I'm a lot, I travel a ton by myself in my pickup. Got one in my pickup, got one by my bed stand. I feel confident with it. I feel more secure. My ever gonna be a hundred percent safe. No, no one is. But I feel like I feel secure. My life is so much better because of them.
Speaker 1:It was a beautiful conversation and the next day I got an email and it said you know, dear, dear miss Waller, you have my brain spinning. I'm never gonna be a hunter. I might not ever own a gun, but I've never looked at those two issues like you explained to me before. It was such a beat I'm gonna cry right now. It was a beautiful email and, like, trust me, it's the only one I've ever had with an anti hunter because they're normally not that willing to listen, but we're trapped on an airplane together for two and a half hours and he was clearly a very intelligent, kind human being. It was really beautiful and it's where I think of it all the time that conversation because, like you said earlier, if we could be respectful In the way we communicate, tell people really with our emotions what honey means to our lives, we can maybe Convince a non or even an anti what it's all about. They don't have to go hunting, they just have to support it.
Speaker 2:Hit on something there that I think we we aren't doing enough of as hunters, and that is speaking emotionally, and I am not the right person to do it right. You know, I tend to lean on facts because that's what, that's what persuades me in one direction or another, but oftentimes people who have a negative outlook on hunting or guns have that from an emotional standpoint, so facts probably aren't going to move the needle for them at all, whereas passion and conviction coming from an emotional standpoint that's backed by facts is going to be a more effective communication.
Speaker 1:And I also think it's a benefit being a woman honestly like, because I'm coming from a female, feminine perspective, which is, you know, we're still we're the largest rising demographic in hunting, but we're still not 50-50, you know. And so I think that that particular conversation went well, because here I'm talking about hunting and guns and he's hearing it from a woman perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you weren't threatening as masculinity no not at all and and I do, I think you're right. You're so right that it's our responsibility to think about how we communicate things. And I'm not saying we're going to convert everybody, but man, if we could just help the non-hunters understand the necessity of wildlife management, first of all and that count you know bears, mountain lions, coyotes, predators that people don't I mean you and I eat bears and lions. Most people don't even know you can, or non-hunters don't know you can. But also the wildlife management side of things, like we have to control our coyote populations, wolf populations, wildlife management in those terms I think people need to understand. And then also the benefits of how great it is to feel sustainable. We hunters didn't care that the grocery shelves were empty during COVID.
Speaker 1:Most of us had stocked freezers you know, I mean or could go get more, know how to get more, and I think of, like I said, if anything positive came out of COVID.
Speaker 2:It was almost a realization of our food industry and that's a realization that a lot of, a lot of non-hunters suddenly had was wait. I can't actually count on the system to provide for me all the time and you know, coming from from my world, that's like ranching and hunting. My whole world is providing food for other people and it was really interesting to see people's reactions during that time and to have that they just had this, this fear and anxiety of like I I actually can't help myself.
Speaker 2:If I need to, it's like, well, you know what you can, you're just gonna have to pick up some skills to do it yeah, yeah yeah, and, and we need to protect this resource for more reasons than just feeling good about there being sheep and deer and elk on the landscape like it. It is a resource that we might we might need at some point yeah, exactly, yeah, I agree and and need with like a capital N. You know we need them now, but could could really really need them at some point yeah yeah, because the way most of our protein is raised is in in areas where a lot of animals are in really close proximity to each other right and they're really vulnerable to getting sick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if that happens then our whole food system goes down pretty quickly yep, yep exactly so okay, jenna, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:This podcast has been a couple years in the making. I'm sorry that it took me so long to finally get get you pinned down, but I look up to you a lot. I think you're a tremendous role model, not just for women but for men, and I think that your, your positivity and your honesty is is rare amongst a group that is is already known for that, and I hope that you'll never stop oh, that's so sweet.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I'm so glad we're finally to connect and hopefully, well, this will just be the first of many yeah, we'll do it again all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you, ma'am, you bet I just want to take a second and thank everyone who's written a review, who has sent mail, who's sent emails, who sent messages. Your support is incredible, and I also love running into trade shows and events and just out on the hillside when we're hunting. I think that that's fantastic. I hope you guys keep adventuring as hard and as often as you can. Art for the six ranch podcast was created by John Chattel and was digitized by Celia Harlander. Original music was written and performed by Justin Hay, and the six ranch podcast is now produced by six ranch media. Thank you all so much for your continued support of the show and I look forward to next week when we can bring you a brand new episode.