Joined by Brian from Bakcou, we discuss the latest e-bike technologies that are revolutionizing outdoor adventures. From motor power to long-range batteries, we'll guide you towards the perfect e-bike for an unforgettable hunt.
Check out the new DECKED system and get free shipping.
Check out BAKCOU to learn more about their e-bikes.
Joined by Brian from Bakcou, we discuss the latest e-bike technologies that are revolutionizing outdoor adventures. From motor power to long-range batteries, we'll guide you towards the perfect e-bike for an unforgettable hunt.
Check out the new DECKED system and get free shipping.
Check out BAKCOU to learn more about their e-bikes.
I agree with those that are saying we have to. We have to fit e-bikes if if we're gonna allow them to be used on traditional mountain bike trails, then they have to meet certain classifications. So I like class one, class two. I think that that's important because we don't we we don't want to turn a bicycle trail into a motorcycle trail, into an ATV trail. We want to still preserve areas for cyclists to be able to go use.
Speaker 2:So I am an advocate of that these are stories of outdoor adventure and expert advice from folks with calloused hands. I'm James Nash and this is the Six Ranch podcast. This episode of the Six Ranch podcast is brought to you by DECT. That's a D, e, c, k E D.
Speaker 2:If you don't know what that is, dect is a drawer system that goes in the bed of a pickup truck or a van and it'll fit just about any American made pickup truck or van. It's a flat surface on top and then underneath there are two drawers that slide out that you can put your gear in, and it's gonna be completely weather proof, so I've never had snow or rain or anything get in there. There's also a bunch of organizational features, like the deco line, and there's boxes that you can put rifles or bows or tools all different sizes. There's some bags and toolkits. There's a bunch of different stuff that you can put in there. But the biggest thing is you can take the stuff that's in your back seat out of your back seat and stored in the drawer system, and it's secure.
Speaker 2:You can put a huge payload of a couple thousand pounds on top of this DECT drawer system. There's tie downs on us. You could strap down all your coolers and your four-wheeler and whatever else you've got up there. It's good stuff. This is made out of all recycled material that's a hundred percent manufactured in America, and if you go to DECTcom slash 6 Ranch, you'll get free shipping on anything that you order. This show is possible because companies like DECT sponsor it, and I would highly encourage you to support this American made business and get yourself some good gear. Okay, we've got Brian from back, who were in the Cryptech podcast booth here at Hunt Expo. Tell me about back who, just to get started, for those who don't know, I've been using one for a while but, like, generally, what are you?
Speaker 1:so back. Who is a passion? Company a passion?
Speaker 2:company, it's a passion company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dave and I both had careers before back who came in?
Speaker 1:yeah took over life, but we're we're passionate archery hunters. We love chasing elk in September, and it started with a need. We were looking for a way to get further into the back country, how to do it quietly, how to do it sent free, how to move quickly, and, and so it really came out of searching for a way for us to get into the back country. So one of our, one of our taglines is built for hunters, by hunters. Yeah, we really didn't look for e-bikes to sell them, to create a company and a product. It was more of a tool for us, right? How can we become better, more efficient hunters?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, that scent aspect of things is really interesting. I was hunting off scooters in North Carolina for coyotes in December, which is incredible, so we're using these. Electric scooters were riding in with night vision goggles. It's incredibly quiet. You can park the truck a mile or so away from your hunting location and ride in, and in complete silence. One of the really interesting things about the scent, though, is if you have a continued, a continuous scent trail, like what a bike truck, bike tire leads yeah, when an animal intersects, that they can't tell which direction it's going right. One of the most powerful books that anybody could ever read for hunting is called predator prey dynamics the role of olfaction. Yeah, it's not a sexy title, it's not a sexy book, but you can learn how scent actually works. And if you're training a dog and you just drag whatever is making the scent in a trail continuously, when they intersect that they can't tell which way it went. But if you make it hop, like like what feet do, yeah, and they can tell instantly right.
Speaker 2:So that's a that's a really powerful thing that played into this hunt in North Carolina. We called in a coyote, killed. It, took pictures of it. We've got white lights on everything. We go back to night vision and start to ride out and there is a coyote coming down our trail and that would have been impossible if we would have walked in, because it would have known which direction we were walking. Yeah, yeah, but because it was on those scooter tracks, it didn't matter, right? Yeah, he didn't know which way we'd gone. Right, its nose was down. It was aware of us. I've got video of all this on thermal. Oh, yeah, right, but it still worked. That scent aspect of it is huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't underestimate that. Yeah, you know anybody that sits in a in a hunting stand. If you're a whitetail hunter, you certainly know this. You can sit in that stand and watch. Watch a doe come through an area where you hiked in to get into your tree stand and it's like somebody smacked them on the nose.
Speaker 1:When they get to where your boots were on the ground. Yeah, they, literally it. Just you're putting down more scent through your boot than you actually realize and and the bikes just don't directional one thing. And and then just, I think, rubber, because you know, most of us are riding on old logging roads and there's been rubber rolling down these roads before. It's. It's not, it's more of a natural scent to them. I think, then this human scent, that that is so strong, that comes with whatever we had for breakfast and whatever you know, we camp fire, we sat around or whatever it might be. So, yeah, scent can't be underestimated, for sure yeah, it's number one.
Speaker 2:If there's one thing to understand, well in hunting, at least in the West, it is got to be sent in when it's sent yeah 100%, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And while we're on the subject, there's two types of scent that come off the human body or or anybody. You leave a scent trail of odorants. So, like you know, molecules that are coming off your body in the form of breath or dead skin cells or hair, anything like that. So imagine, everywhere you go you're just dumping out of salt shaker, mm-hmm, and that's gonna stick to the ground everywhere you went. And then there's an odorant plume, which is the stuff that's evaporating off you. So when an animal is downwind and smells you, it's that odorant plume, it's the odorant trail if you're walking. And just a hot tip for people, a tactic that I've changed in the past few years is when I walk into a place I used to like slip in and kind of stay in the shadows. You know I walk through the hottest, most sun exposed portion, because nothing destroys those molecules faster than UV. Than that he come. Yeah, that son yeah yeah, so that's a.
Speaker 2:That's a hot take for some of the one. I love it. Once a power play. That's counter-intuitive, but it really does work, because I've had elk walk over those places, yeah, where I'm in the shade, and they smell it hours later, but if it's in the sun they don't. Yeah, that's good information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, any elk hunter learns real quickly. You got to understand thermals, you got to understand scent, you got to understand wind. If you can't get that right, then you may as well head back to camp and hang out at camp, because, yeah, it's game over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so electric vehicles they're doing big things like you got in at an interesting time with this technology and it's evolving really quickly. Yeah, tell me about how that technology has changed between when you started and now.
Speaker 1:Rapidly. I mean technology, just like everything else in this world, just seems to be as soon as you come out with something, man, within six months they got something that's improved on it. But now we're getting things where we're, you're able to find your bike. You know, we've got some really cool things that are coming out on on our models where you actually, you know guys will get out in an area and they'll put their bike down, kind of like you said, a backpack down, you think, oh, I know right where that's at and I'm going to find it when I come back out and it's not there.
Speaker 1:There's technology now, through GPS, that you can actually relocate your bike. You can mark it and find it. You can actually uh, alarms will be set when you're, when you walk away from your bike, it'll automatically, uh, it'll set an alarm and it'll lock the bike down or, as you get within 50 yards of it, it'll unlock and you'll be able to get on your bike. Um, so some, some technology that way, um, but then even just in the gearing and the motors and, uh, the electrical aspects of an electric bike have changed drastically as well.
Speaker 2:The hub motors, yeah right, phenomenal yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know the big thing that people have to understand. When you're looking at an electric bike, there's, there's really two things that make an electric bike an electric bike, and that is a motor and a battery. Yeah, that's what. That's what changes the whole thing. So when you're, when you're looking to find a bike, and for whatever application it is, the, the number one thing you want to look at is motor because, just like in a in a vehicle, there's a Honda Civic that is meant to run around town and it gets get great gas mileage, but it's not going to pull a 20 000 pound toy hauler. Or you've got a Chevy Duramax that's built to climb and built to pull and and be a workhorse. The same thing is the case with e-bikes. You can go with a hub drive, which is more of a low torque run around rolling hills, flatter ground e-bike. Or you can go to something with a mid-drive which works in concert with the gears of the bike and is built more for climbing, off-road use, rugged terrain, built for pulling, carrying towing, and then, even within that mid-drive class, kind of like, you've got your, your Toyota 4Runner, your your Toyota Tacoma, and then you've got your Tundra, and then you've got. You know, your, your diesel vehicles, uh, mid-drives are the same way. You can have a kind of a, a lower end uh mid-drive that is built more for mileage and is capable but it's still not built to to pull and carry and to tow. And so we build our bikes, because our bikes are built for the back country, they're built to haul gear and haul people and and to haul out your game when you get it. So our, our bikes are built around heavy duty, all metal gearing componentry of the motor itself that is built and structured for that right.
Speaker 1:And then you, and then the next thing that you're going to look at is is batteries?
Speaker 1:All batteries aren't created equal. Just like you know, when you go to the grocery store you can buy a nine volt for three bucks or you can buy one for 12. Well, our batteries are built with the long lasting lithium ion cells. They're built with the 12 dollar cell kind of that energizer dura cell type cell that is built to hold a charge for a longer period of time so you can go further on a single charge and they last longer. So, um, you know, you'll get people ask all the time well, how long will my battery last? Well, one it'll last just like your car battery five, six, seven years if you take care of it, and uh and two um, you're going to get maximum distance out of it per charge, and so not only do you get a battery that's going to last for a long period of time, but it's also going to give you maximum distance during those five to six years that you're using it something I really appreciate about your guys's gear is that you you undersell its capabilities.
Speaker 2:So, oh, and this doesn't happen across the outdoor space, right, if you get a sleeping bag that is rated for 30 degrees yeah, that is the survival rating right, so at 29 degrees.
Speaker 2:You die right right, right, yes, exactly um, so like the grizzly uh is the scooter of yours that I use and I love it. It makes me smile every time I get on it. I ride it for the pure joy of it, and riding the grizzly scooter at night in the summertime with night vision is just my favorite thing in the world. It is phenomenal. Uh, I think you have that rated for 270 pounds something like that.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, right in that range, right. So I'm 300 pounds and I've put a trailer on it with 100 pounds of salt to go feed cattle yep, and it does all that, right, oh yeah, I, I rode it from Enterprise Oregon to Joseph, oregon. On the back roads it was 18 miles with a thousand feet of elevation gain, and it made it like I love it, right, that's incredible, and that's one of those hub driven motors that isn't known for, you know, high torque or or anything like that, but it's doing it. So I just wanted to say that, like I really appreciate that you are underselling the actual capabilities of of what you're doing, rather than you know overselling it or you're putting it right at that sort of survival rating yeah, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, that's important to us. Uh, relationships and what people think of our products means a lot to us. It's. It's not about just selling something. Um, it really is selling a lifestyle, selling an adventure, selling something that is going to improve people's lives, and if they purchase it under a certain pretense that it's going to do this and it doesn't do that for them, then we take that personal and so no, we, we, uh, we definitely try to over build our stuff so that it'll it'll do what you want it to do and the expectations that you have for it and I
Speaker 1:love that grizzly scooter. We built that uh similar to the, to our bikes, in the sense that it has about a foot of clearance, so you've got great clearance to go over some rocky terrain. Yep, it has that 1000 watt hub drive motor. Uh, that really will push you up some hills. It's not meant for a long, sustaining climb for an extended period of time, um, but it'll certainly climb and um, and then it's just built with great components from. You've got to have good brakes. You've got to have some, um, hydraulic piston brakes that are going to grab that rotor and stop you because, like you say, when you're, when you're pulling 100 pounds behind you and you're weighing a couple hundred plus yourself, you got to have brakes that are going to stop you, keep you safe and and um and the brakes are quiet.
Speaker 2:yeah, right, yeah. So you know, for me, when, when I'm on an electric scooter, electric bike, a huge portion of it is just sound, and a bicycle is quieter than walking. It can't have rattles, it can't have squeaks, and that fits the bill. Another thing that I really really like about the scooter is how easy it is to get on and off.
Speaker 2:I don't have to sling my leg up over anything, and if you're wearing a pack and you're trying to roll your leg up over a bicycle seat. That's kind of a tricky move. And another thing that I really appreciate about electric bikes and there is a degree of controversy around them, which is unfounded in my opinion, but you've created something that allows people with physical disabilities to access places that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do. Yeah right, and what a gift.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it makes you feel good. I mean in so many ways. It makes you feel good because you're enhancing people's lives. You're allowing them to get outdoors and to enjoy, you know, get away from the stresses of life and enjoy life and take a little bit of break from the stresses of life. It makes you feel good with regards to the environment because we're not putting out emissions. The impact that it has to the trails is very minimal.
Speaker 1:Soil samples have been done that show an electric bike doesn't have any more impact on the trail than a regular pedal bicycle would and certainly a lot less stress on trails than even a horse would put on a trail. And so feel good about that, that you're being good to the environment. You're being good to people and creating adventure and creating opportunity. And certainly you know those that have disabilities. It allows them to do things that they ordinarily would not be able to do as well as many people that maybe used to be able to do it but maybe age or illness or whatever maybe has now made them so that they can't do that. And these bikes essentially light that fire again and allow them to get out and do the things that they did 10 years ago that maybe they can't. Couldn't for the last few years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I think that that's a very special thing and anybody who wants to take that away, they're really not acting with the amount of compassion that one human is due to show another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Tell me about your L-Count with Marcy.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we've had some fun hunts together, but I think, if you're referring to the one in particular, we did a hunt on some R&K property here in Utah and we were chasing around bulls anywhere from probably 220 to maybe 300 class bulls and we had the bikes and we were just moving through the trees and we'd get on top of a herd and then we had a big herd bull pushing his cows through some trees and we'd jump off the bikes and try to get in on them and then they'd skirt down the mountain. Didn't never saw us, but they just were moving fast enough. It was in the evening and we were just. It was a run and gun type of night, one night in particular that I recall and we come flying down this hill. We knew we had maybe 15 minutes left of light. Brian had a call that he'd been blowing on all week long and it was on its last leg. It was, as a matter of fact, he even had to take the. Not only the reed was going but the actual tube was going, and so anyway, we'd flying down this hill and come around this corner and he slams on his brakes. I slam on my brakes, my son's right behind me, he hits his brakes, we almost slam into each other.
Speaker 1:There's this whole herd of elk, maybe 80 yards out in the middle of this field, this big old herd bull screaming and going off, and we're trying to get in position of them. It just created for such one of those moments that you'll just remember for a life. We didn't even harvest an animal, I didn't even draw my bull back that night, but we were just chasing animals all over the mountain. They never even saw us until that last herd out in the middle of the field, and then we tried to put the sneak on him. You've got 15 minutes of shooting light left and by the time we could get into position we got in some bad wind and shifted on us and kind of blew him out.
Speaker 1:But no, the bikes just allowed us to go from one end of the mountain all the way to the other end, as this herd is moving through the trees and he's pushing them down canyons and over little ridges and dropping down into this big metal. And we couldn't have done that without the bikes. We would have been stuck up on the hill just watching them move down through the trees. And so it created a special memory for us. Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:It's pretty special to add that maneuver element to it and be able to add some speed and show up fresh. Yeah, yeah, elk or cool animals.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you know, it's funny because most of us we get so amped up for a hunt that we show up in that day one. What do we do? We go gangbusters, like we get out, we put 10 miles on our boots and we're all over the mountain. And then we wake up the next morning and we're like, oh man, maybe I've got five miles in me today. So then we hunt a five mile perimeter and by day three usually we're getting a little fatigued, our feet are a little sore, knees are maybe a little sore.
Speaker 1:The bikes just allow you to cover more ground. It allows you to get out and cover more area Instead of just saying, hey, I'm going to hunt this canyon today. You can ride that old logging road, you can throw bugles up every 100 yards or so and you can cover that entire front, not just that one canyon. And so they really are a game changer With regards to being able to cover more ground, to do it quietly, to do it quickly, to be sent free. And then it adds an element of just fun. It really does. They're just fun to ride and to feel the breeze out there. You're only doing eight to 10 miles an hour, but you can hear animals. You can hear the bulls bugling up on the hillside when you're riding in and just yeah, it's a great experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. What's the future of this? Do you have a sense of where this technology might be in 10 years? Because it is something that's changing so quickly? It can be an impediment to somebody deciding to make a decision to buy this because they're like, well, what if something way better comes out next year? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think there's certainly going to be some advancements, but at the end of the day, we want them to be considered bicycles. So we're not trying to turn these things into a motor vehicle. We're not trying to turn them into a motorcycle, we want them to be a bicycle. That's what they're for. Right now, there's classes of e-bikes, there's class one through class four.
Speaker 2:Talk me through that, because that's confusing to a lot of people, including myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a class one e-bike. We're in Utah right now. So a class one e-bike. In Utah and in most states throughout the US, class one e-bikes are considered non-motorized, and so you can ride a class one e-bike anywhere that you could ride.
Speaker 1:A regular pedal bicycle and a class one e-bike meets requirements If, at one, the motor is 750 watts or less. And they chose 750 watts because 750 watts is the equivalent of one horsepower. So they said well, if we're going to allow a horse on this trail, then anything that has one horsepower or less should be considered able to use this trail. So 750 watts or less. Next thing is it has to be pedal assist only, in other words, it doesn't have a throttle. You can't get on in here, throttle and ride without using the pedals. So pedal assist 750 watts or less. And then the last thing is that the motor can't assist you beyond 20 miles per hour. So the motor can help you up to 20 miles per hour, but not beyond that. And at that point if you can pedal faster, then that's just fine. Anybody can do that on a regular bike, but the motor doesn't assist you beyond that. So that's class one, those three parameters.
Speaker 1:This is Utah specific. This is throughout the United States. Utah kind of adopted this policy because it was put into place I don't know if it was California or what state first tried to classify e-bikes and figure out where they fit with regards to bicycles and motorcycles and motor vehicles, and so they came out with these classes and Utah adopted that. And, like I say, most states throughout the US adopt the four classifications. So that's class one. Class two is exactly like class one, except for you're allowed to use a throttle. And a lot of people will argue well, does it matter if it's only a 750 watt motor and the motor only assists you to 20 miles per hour? Does it really matter if you use a throttle or if you're pedaling? Because there might be somebody that they're out riding and maybe they are trying to lose some weight, maybe they're trying to get into better help and they can only ride so far with the pedals and then maybe they need that throttle to help them, give them a little breather for 30 seconds and then they start pedaling again. And so there's a lot of places that allow you to ride a class two bike, as a matter of fact, the national parks throughout the US. They allow class one and class two e-bikes to be used in all national parks.
Speaker 1:And then there's class three. Class three goes back to what class one is. It's pedal assist only, 750 watt only, but it allows the motor to assist you to 28 miles per hour. So that allows you to get a little more speed, up to 28 miles per hour, a little more assistance. And then class four is kind of unrestricted. So class four puts you more in that motorcycle category.
Speaker 1:Most states would consider that a motorized vehicle and you can have 1,000 watt or 1,500 watt, you can have a throttle, the motor can assist you as high as you want it to assist you. So to answer your question of how's this going to evolve, technology is going to evolve and we're going to probably have better gearing and shifting and it's going to be more fine tuned and the motors are probably going to over time they're going to be built to last for 20 years instead of 10 years or whatever. It is longevity of components and stuff. But it's still going to have to fit within that bicycle realm and I think you're going to see these classes that are going to kind of form that and although the product will evolve and become better and just like our cars, last a little bit longer maybe in there and a little more efficient. Same thing's going to happen with bikes, but it's not a matter of hold off now, because it's going to change everything in the future. It's still going to have to fit within the box of that class one, gotcha.
Speaker 2:What is your favorite backhoe bike to ride?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on what I'm doing. So we have a bike called it's our sport trail bike and it's built more around just sport trail riding. Built, if you're, it's called the Scout. So the Scout is built around the guy that 80% of the time loves to just sport trail ride. 20% of the time he wants to turn it into a utility type bike and he wants to hunt off it and do things like that. So the suspension and the geometry of the bike is built for the guy that loves to get out on the trails and just loves to ride but then also wants to throw a rack on it and turn it into a utility bike. So if I'm just going out trail riding the Scout, the suspension on it is off the charts. It's just a comfortable ride and the geometry just puts you in a great position.
Speaker 1:If I'm hunting, what do you mean by geometry?
Speaker 1:So the geometry is based when you, when we design a frame and we work with engineers to design the frame and we're thinking about the capabilities of that bike, we're going to set up the frame so that it puts the rider in a particular position. Are you in more of an upright position or are you more in an athletic position where you're stretched out and you're making more of an athletic type riding pattern. So our storm's going to stretch you out a little bit more, put you a little more aerodynamic, put you in a position for more of a sport trail riding, as opposed to like our mule or our storm, which are built more for a utility type hunter. If you're a guy that wants to use it 80% of the time to hunt and then 20% of the time to go out and enjoy the trails, then you're going to choose something more of our hard tail mule, which has been kind of our flagship bike and the number one selling hunting bike in the US for the last four and a half years.
Speaker 2:Or it has been Congratulations.
Speaker 1:It's off the charts and we sell a ton of the mules. It's a great bike. But we had some guys that said I want the mule with that powerful motor, all the gearing, all the suspension, but I also want more of a comfortable ride. I want full suspension where the mule has just has the front air shocks that doesn't have a rear suspension on it. And some guys like that. They want that solid rear end. But then other guys were like I ride some rugged stuff and I would like the full suspension.
Speaker 1:So then the storm came into play and it was patterned after the mule with all the same componentry, same motor, same batteries, but then has full suspension. So if I'm out hunting then I'm grabbing the mule or the storm. If I'm doing a lot of trail riding, then I'm going to grab the scout. We also have our Mav3, which is kind of built for our bigger riders, our guys that 300, 350 pounds and maybe 6 foot 5 to 6 foot 10. We've got NBA players that use them. It's built for more of that big, rugged tires. Instead of 4 inch tires they're 5 inch tires. The suspension's a little beefier, built for that type of rider.
Speaker 2:So For me, yeah, it depends on what I'm going after I think I rode the storm at the last SIG Hunter games and that thing was a rocket.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And I felt like, if the bark was right, I could climb a tree.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Something that we're starting to see a little bit more of is two-wheel drive bikes. Are you guys getting into that yet?
Speaker 1:We do. We have our Kodiak, our Kodiaks and all-wheel drive bikes. So, coming back to that hub drive discussion that we had, it has not only a motor in the rear hub but it has a motor in the front hub and the Kodiak is perfect for the guy that hunts in an area where maybe it's a little more sandy terrain. Because of that all-wheel drive it churns and moves through the sand really well. If you're in an area where you're hunting in some snow, it moves through the snow really well. Maybe some mud, a little bit of mud Now, the clinging mud that we get sometimes in the Midwest and other areas.
Speaker 1:Clinging mud. It doesn't matter if you're riding a bicycle or you're riding a motorcycle, a four-wheeler or a pickup truck. Clinging mud sticks to tires and so the Kodiak does better than the other bikes because it has two wheels that are churning and moving through it. But it still has its limitations if that mud's grabbing the tires. But it does really well in snow, does really well in sand. Because it's the hub drive, it'll climb, even though it's all-wheel drive. Guys would think, oh well, that's going to out-climb the rest of them. No, it's still a hub drive, it still has front and rear hubs and it doesn't create the amount of torque that that mid-drive motor, ultra motor, that we have on our storm and on our scout and on our mule has. So you're going to choose that based on the terrain that you're riding in. If you want the all-wheel drive for sand, snow, mud stuff like that, but not necessarily for Western hunters that are climbing the steep stuff, gotcha.
Speaker 2:Talk me through and you did it a couple of years ago, but talk me through sort of how these traditional derailers and stuff that we grew up with have changed, Because now they're so much more reliable, so much more internal. The shifting is a pleasurable experience, rather than I feel like this bicycle is going to eat me at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, one thing that we pride ourselves on at VACU is that we use top-end components and we use them from reputable companies. We design our own frames, we engineer our own frames, and we do that because of the applications that we want to use them for. But we're not going to pretend that we know everything about every component of every bike. We don't build our own spokes, we don't build our own cassettes and our own shifting mechanisms. So we use the top brands in the industry. We use SRAM and we use Shimano, and as these companies advance and get better at what they're doing, then it only helps us in providing that product on our bikes. That makes our products and our bikes better as well.
Speaker 1:And they have advanced. They've got the timing down, they've got the cable, the poles and the way the cables pull and the way the derailleur moves the chain across the cassette better. They've got narrow and wide teeth on the cassettes that allow it to roll better and just perform better. And then there's little set screws in the derailleur that allow the novice or the lay person to be able to adjust their derailleur very easily. You don't have to take it to a bike shop and have a professional do it anymore. You can actually adjust it with just a little little Phillips screwdriver right on the trail If you feel like something's just not shifting correctly. It allows you to be able to dial things in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just more reliable. Yeah, like there's such. It feels to me like you're not having to take your bike into the shop and get everything tuned right because it's trying to skip between gears Right.
Speaker 1:No, no, and that is one thing that you know. Just cycling in general, they've just gotten better. These component companies. That that's what they do, and you know we do have some input. So there's some things like we've come out.
Speaker 1:We you know e-bikes are new, for the most part in the US. They haven't been around very long. When Baku started in late 2016, we didn't know of any other hunting e-bike brands out there, and in Europe and in Asia they weren't building hunting e-bikes or back country e-bikes. They're building e-bikes for commuters and they've been around for a number of years in Europe and in Asia, but they weren't built for what we're doing.
Speaker 1:So what we have found is that we've then had to go back to these manufacturers and say we need heavier duty componentry. We need that cassette to be thick and heavy and your strongest metal, not something that is lightweight and is shaving grams. We want that thing to be bulletproof. We're not so worried about weight like a lot of traditional cyclists are spending a thousand bucks to drop 10 grams. We want that heavy duty componentry, and so we've worked with many manufacturers in designing and developing these components that are built heavy duty so that they'll stand up to the rigors of that heavy duty motor and all the demands that are being placed on it. Thank you for doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it saves a lot of headaches for all of us when you're out in the back country for sure, because there is a sector of bicycling where weight is everything, so they're willing to sacrifice durability for fractions of an ounce.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah, and it's true. It's in everything in cycling they're trying to shave grams and I get it. When you're racing Tour de France, you know those guys are every ounce on that bike. When they're climbing some of those steep ascents, that matters. Their legs are screaming at them and they want to drop that weight as much as they can. But when you've got the assistance of a motor, the weight isn't so important. And especially when you're building a utility style hunting bike like we do, you want it to be capable, not lightweight.
Speaker 2:What's one current restriction on e-bikes that you agree with and one that you disagree with?
Speaker 1:I agree with those that are saying we have to fit e-bikes. If we're going to allow them to be used on traditional mountain bike trails, then they have to meet certain classifications. So I like class one, class two. I think that that's important because we don't want to turn a bicycle trail into a motorcycle trail, into an ATV trail. We want to still preserve areas for cyclists to be able to go use.
Speaker 1:So I am an advocate of that, a big advocate of that, and in staying within, you know, kind of staying within, where we fit and where I probably struggle is along the same lines that, you know, cyclists have been around for a long time and there's a lot of cycling purists that believe, oh, if you've got any type of assistance, and that's cheating and that's motorized and it shouldn't be on our trails.
Speaker 1:And I disagree with that because, for many of the reasons we just said, it's allowing people to get out and enjoy things that they otherwise couldn't do, and it's a different type of enjoyment, even for somebody like myself.
Speaker 1:I've, you know, I've raced triathlons, I raced Ironman events and I was a cyclist long before Baku came along, and I love the burn in my lungs of riding a bike and climbing hills. But this is a different type of recreation, a different type of enjoyment, and when I'm wanting to ride my e-bike and it's not doing having any more impact on the trail than a regular pedal bicycle would in these soil, samples show that they don't, then there's no reason to limit them. And if they're not, you know, if they're not creating more, more harm or danger to others on the trail, I would say the guys that are riding these downhill bike trails on a regular bike, without a motor on it, are moving a lot faster and and probably even a little more reckless than the guys that are riding an e-bike. So so I would like to see them come together and for the purists, the cycling purists, to say there is room for this, if you're fitting within this, then that that should be allowed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see some of that elitism in in the archery sector with. You know guys that are longbow only or guys that are tradbow only, so they'll accept recurves, and then you know there's so many compound guys that just abhor the thought of shooting a crossbow. Yeah, and I think that we're at a really interesting stage with crossbows because they're very popular, they're very old. Crossbow technology, I think, came about in the 1500s.
Speaker 2:So if you want to talk, traditional crossbows are in many ways a lot more traditional than a compound bow and they allow people to access archery hunting who otherwise wouldn't be able to. Oftentimes, yeah, and when I see people oppose that, it kind of hurts me. Now, I love shooting every kind of bow. I don't own a crossbow, but in Oregon, where I live, it's illegal to use a crossbow for hunting regardless. Like there's no medical waivers, there's no nothing, you can't do it, and that's driven by this sort of traditional mindset of what it means. I think that that is crazy. To take, say, a veteran who's missing a limb and look that guy in the eye and say you're not allowed to archery hunt. You know you can't take a crossbow.
Speaker 2:If somebody's using a crossbow, that affects my experience of using a compound or a recurve not at all right, doesn't affect me at all, and every argument against crossbows was once used against compounds, exactly. We just changed it by 20 years, yes, and if you go back to the early 90s, everything that people were saying about compounds is exactly what they're saying about crossbows today, exactly. So I really keep coming back to it. But it is so important to me for people to be able to access nature, to move around, and if there's a tool that allows them to do that, that doesn't hurt the environment or affect other people's experiences in a negative way. I'm all for it. I'm all for it.
Speaker 2:So I think people need to be a little bit more open-minded about this and for those who are thinking about it and thinking about embracing it, this is a significant investment, like your, bikes cost thousands of dollars, so where can they go to try one out, to see if it's worth their?
Speaker 1:money. Well, we have dealers throughout the US, so they can find us at wwwBacucom. How's.
Speaker 2:Baku spelled.
Speaker 1:B-A-K-C-O-U. Why is it spelled like that? Because of the stress that you put on the syllables for back country, and so we started off as back country e-bikes and then, over time, realized you know what we need to create something that is our own. How do we do it? Back country is such a broad term that if you do a Google search, you'll see 1,000 businesses that are back country.
Speaker 1:And it can't be defined either, and it can't be defined, whereas Baku we get to define that, and so stress on the syllables is where we went to B-A-K and we still have people all the time put the C in front of the K, but B-A-K-C-O-U they can. That'll get them to our home page and right at the top of the home page they can go to our dealer locator. You can find one of our locators, find the one that's nearest to you, and you can go sit on it, fill it, test it, ride it around. If you live in an area where there's not a dealer right next door, we don't want you to worry there either. Call one of our customer service folks.
Speaker 1:We're going to tell you all about.
Speaker 1:We're going to ask you first what are you going to use it for, what's your application, and then we're going to talk you through what bike would maybe fit you the best.
Speaker 1:You know how tall are you, what's your leg length, what are you going to use it for, how far do you want to ride it those types of questions and we're going to tell you what bikes are built for that type of a use. And then, if you don't have a dealer next to you, we're going to send you a bike and we're going to let you sit on it, ride it, test it, and if it's not exactly what we told you it was and it's not everything you thought it was, you can send that thing back for a full refund. So we can't necessarily put a dealer right next door to everybody, but we've got them throughout the country. But if, for some reason, there's not one right next to you, rest assured that we're going to ship it to you, and if it's not exactly what you thought it was going to be, send it back. We'll give you a full refund.
Speaker 2:And can they go test these bikes at Crypteq, for example?
Speaker 1:They can. Ok, oh yeah yeah, we've got bikes that right at the Crypteq headquarters, nice, so you can see them there, you can see them in the Crypteq patterns to a sharp-looking bike, our storm, our storm in particular, has the Crypteq patterns on it and just is off the charts. Beautiful bike, beautiful, beautiful bike.
Speaker 2:The stuff that I like doing are expedition-style hunts that are multi-day. I like to go as far as I possibly can. There are some limitations that come along with that. Can you overcome that with bringing extra batteries or solar panels? How do you extend that beyond that? 20 miles or so?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So to give you an idea, I'll bet the most popular question we get is how far can I go? Sure, and there's a lot of variables to that. It's kind of like a vehicle. If you're driving your pickup truck with a dry bed, you're going to get better gas mileage than you are if you're pulling your toy hauler behind it. Same thing with these bikes Depends on the demands you're putting on it. If it's pulling around a guy that weighs 150 pounds or a guy that weighs 300 pounds, it's going to use more battery.
Speaker 1:But to give you an idea, I weigh about 170 pounds and I get out of our long-lasting lithium ion cells.
Speaker 1:I get about two miles per amp hour on our bikes.
Speaker 1:So we have varying levels of battery sizes and we have entry-level batteries that start at 17.5 amp hours and we go all the way up to 25 amp hours, which is the biggest in the industry. So just doing the simple math, two miles per amp hour on a 25 amp hour battery, I get roughly 50 miles and that's 50 miles hunting miles. So that's riding the hills of Idaho uphill, downhill, using the bike for which it was intended, using the throttle to climb a hill every now and then to keep myself from perspiring and sweating and stinking up the mountain. But then when I get on that flatter logging road that I'm dropping it down into a level assist one and I'm being battery conscientious I'm gonna get about 50 miles. If I drop down to our entry level battery at a 17.5,. I'm somewhere in that 34, 35 mile range. If I'm just riding around town and I'm doing a lot less work and I'm not carrying a pack on my back, then I'm gonna get even. I'm gonna get more than that.
Speaker 2:And say you're in a scenario where you might need 100 miles of range, can you just bring an extra?
Speaker 1:battery Absolutely yeah yeah, you can.
Speaker 1:We have guys that we have bags a peneer bag that sits on top of the rear peneer rack. That is built specifically to carry a battery and so you can buy an extra battery. You put it in a padded battery case and then you put it in that peneer bag and you can ride with it and you got a couple of 25 amp hour batteries. You're gonna get your 100 miles and then you can, or you can, have a solar panel. If you're setting up camp and you're back in the you know, back in the back country for a week or so, you can. When you jump off your bike you can throw that solar panel up. It folds up into about a 13 by 13 inch square. You can carry it along with you, unfold it, open it up. It's 200 watts. It'll take about four hours to charge a battery If you've got a clear view of the sun that's not bad about four hours to charge that battery from zero all the way to full.
Speaker 2:That's a lot less than what I would have expected.
Speaker 1:That's a really fast charge and it does have something to do with a clear view of the sun. If it's a cloudy day it might take another couple hours. But you don't need to have it fully charged. If you ride that thing back five or six miles and you just wanna top it off, you know it's gonna do that in 45 minutes half hour. So say you've got options. And if you wanna have two batteries and leave one at camp and one's charging while you're out riding the other one, you come back each day and you just swap one out and you take off. We have a lot of guys that do that as well.
Speaker 2:Well, the strongest endorsement that I could possibly give and I keep coming back to it folks, if you are predator hunting or interested in it and you can get your hands on one of these scooters and night vision or even just a headlamp Like, if you don't wanna spend the money on night vision, just you know, get a headlamp with a red lens and you can really sneak in there.
Speaker 2:But if you can get some night vision and a helmet to be able to make that wearable, I'm telling you there's just no greater joy than riding back country roads or trails at night with night vision and just watching the world that you didn't know existed, slipping into those spots, you know, doing your coyote stand for 15 or 20 minutes, moving on to the next one. It is just some of the most fun hunting I've ever done in my life, and that grizzly scooter is the ticket. It is the ticket, I think it is just. It's so deadly and even if you're just riding in to do daylight hunting and you're riding in in the dark, really, really powerful tool.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is, and you know it's a new concept for people. People when they think about riding a scooter in the mountains, it just doesn't seem to jive. But once you do it, we built the scooter for the exact reason that you said a moment ago. We built it so that it's easy on and off. Sometimes, riding on a bike and you're you see an animal off the side of the road, it's a little more work to get your leg over that rear premiere rack, to get the bike scooter over the side, whereas a scooter you just step off and drop the kickstand or lay the, lay the scooter right on its side and you're. It really is a run and gun type of option. And so we have more and more people that are recognizing that. And as the word gets out, yeah, our we have.
Speaker 1:We have two big scooters. We have our Timber Wolf and our Grizzly. You've mentioned the Grizzly, which is a 1000 watt rear hub and really good clearance. Gives you about 13 inches of clearance, gives you a big, wide platform for your feet to stand on. Our Timber Wolf is two 500 watts, so it's an all wheel drive but 500 watts. So it comes back to application. What are you going to use it for and how are you going to use it? It doesn't have quite as much clearance. It's got more of a six to seven inches of clearance, but it's built more for, you know, riding in those areas where maybe you're going to be in some sand or some snow or some mud and and you need to be able to churn through some things a little bit more. That way, and as people are learning more and the application of the Grizzly and the Timber Wolf scooter, we're getting far more comments now than we were six months ago about how it's changing the way people are enjoying them out the back country.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the ticket for me and the ground clearance is huge, but it's still really easy to step on and off of. It's really quiet to step on and off of. There's nothing that you're going to hang up on. I stripped almost everything off mine. So like if you could bolt it on, I've unbolted it at this point.
Speaker 2:So it's very, very slick and it's extremely quiet and I just get off, I quietly set the thing on the ground and then go about doing whatever I'm going to do. It's full suspension. It has huge tires. Yep Right, how big are those tires?
Speaker 1:They're 26 inch tires and they're four inch fat tire, right. So 26 by four, which is exactly what we have on our mule and on our storm and on our scout, so this isn't the lime green thing that you're scooting around town in. No, this is a real full suspension thing this is a big fat, 26 inch fat tire like you'd have on your bike, yep.
Speaker 2:And the platform that you stand on is big. It's like you're standing on a wider skateboard or something. Yes, you could pull off dance moves on that thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly no, and you hit on a key point there. The Grizzly is our full suspension scooter, Yep. So it's the 1,000 watt full suspension front air suspension, rear air suspension Whereas our Timber Wolf is just front suspension. It's not full suspension, but it's the all wheel drive. So here again, that's why it's important to reach out to us. We'll talk you through the details and help you make sure you make the right choice for what you're going to be using it for whether it's all wheel drive, whether it's mid drive, whether it's hub drive, whether it's full suspension or hardtail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I hunt off of a motorcycle a lot. I think that's a really undervalued hunting tool. I ride some form of motorcycle all year long, whether it's in an adventure bike in the summer or a snow bike in the winter. I've found that the Grizzly does pretty well in the snow, much better than I thought it was going to do.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And even with me being a big heavy guy, those four inch tires provide a lot of flotation.
Speaker 1:A lot of flotation oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're not super knobby, so they're not flinging stuff all over the place. But I've never come into a situation where I felt like I needed a more aggressive tread on that tire to be able to get purchase to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's. One of the great things about a fat tire is that you can increase the PSI or decrease the PSI depending upon the terrain that you're riding in. So if you're riding in sand or snow, you can drop the PSI of those tires down to 13 PSI, get a little broader space on top of the terrain that you're riding on and it keeps you afloat, as opposed to if you're riding on something that's a little more hard packed. You can pump that up to 2022 PSI and it rolls a little bit better on the hard packs.
Speaker 2:Nice. Any pieces of parting advice for somebody that's considering their first electric bike of one form or another?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I think number one is educate yourself. Make sure that you're educated, that you know what you're buying. There's a lot of options out there, but we see quite frequently, because of the confusion with e-bikes being so new, somebody sees a fat tire bike and they think, oh, that must be an off-road capable bike. And it's not. It's a commuter bike that has fat tires that somebody's making look like it's a hunting bike or a back country bike. They're not built with the same componentry. And so do your research. Make sure that you understand motors, batteries and componentry and that you're buying a bike that is built for what you want to use it for. I think that that's first and foremost. And then you really do.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, in our world today you get what you pay for. So to go out and buy, you're going to have a great time on a $1,500 e-bike, riding it around town and around the neighborhood and down to the park and things, but you're not going to get the same off-road experience on that bike that you're going to get on one that is meant for that type of riding. So sometimes that little extra money I would say in motor and in battery is going to make you a happier consumer in the long run Because they're expensive. You know whether you're spending $1,500, you're spending $6,000, there are a lot of money and so you want to make sure that it's going to last and that you're going to be able to have several years of enjoyment out of it.
Speaker 1:At Baku we build our bikes that they really don't lose their value. We have customers that have had them for six, seven years. I had a guy text me the other day has 12,000 miles on his bike. He's had it for three years and he just bought a new one, sold that one to a son and bought a new one because he wanted full suspension on his next bike and went with the scout. And so buy something that's going to hold its value, that you can upgrade or move down to another family member when you get another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really solid advice. The only thing that I would add to that is don't be afraid to try it. If bicycles haven't been your thing in the past, maybe you wrecked on one, you had some kind of a bad experience. This is different in a meaningful way, so if you get the opportunity to go sit on one and spin it around the block and see what you think, I just dare you not to smile.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fun Not smiling.
Speaker 2:They are fun Because that's an instant reaction I've seen from everybody is, as soon as they start going, there's a few seconds of figuring it out and then it's a smile. It's like, oh, this is great.
Speaker 1:We call it the e-bike smile.
Speaker 1:And, as a matter of fact, ads shows for the first three or four years. We haven't done it the last couple of years but for the first few years, even here at the Western Hunt, we would set up trail cams to capture that first 10 seconds when somebody would ride through one of our test areas Because we knew what they were going to do, that smile, Because they couldn't anticipate just how cool it really feels when you're out there. And to speak towards safety, I love how you mentioned don't be afraid of it.
Speaker 1:We do build our bikes with these fat tires for a safety reason as well. They're very stable. You're riding off road, which the fat tire gives you a lot more stability, but it also gives you stability even on hard pavement. We've all ridden bikes before where we come around a corner and we think, oh man, if I hit that gravel, it's going out from underneath me. You don't feel that on our bikes Because of the geometry, the way they're set up and built to be stable, and then with those fat tires, the way they grip the road, you don't feel vulnerable riding on them.
Speaker 2:Awesome stuff, man. Thank you so much. Folks, if you're all interested, at least go to the website, which is BAK COEcom, and if you've got questions, give these guys a call. They're going to be more than happy to help you with it. And if you've got more questions about my experience, specifically with the Grizzly because that's what I've ridden the most, of course you can reach out to me on Instagram anytime and I will get back to you. Love it. Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate it. I hope you have a great show. Yes wonderful.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your time. You, too, thank you. I just want to take a second and thank everyone who's written a review, who has sent mail, who's sent emails, who's sent messages. Your support is incredible, and I also love running into trade shows and events just out on the hillside when we're hunting. I think that that's fantastic. I hope you guys keep adventuring as hard and as often as you can. Art for the Six Ranch podcast was created by John Chattelin and was digitized by Celia Harlander. Original music was written and performed by Justin Hay, and the Six Ranch podcast is now produced by Six Ranch Media. Thank you all so much for your continued support of the show, and I look forward to next week when we can bring you a brand new episode.